The following message was delivered at the 2003 Shepherds’ Conference, A ministry of Grace Community Church 818.909.5530. © 2003 All Rights Reserved. A CD, MP3, or tape cassette copy of this session (# 3114-3) can be obtained by going to www.shepherdsconference.org
Questions & Answers
by
Patricia MacArthur
(Wife of
Pastor John MacArthur)
For the ladies that have not been here before, this is our pastor’s wife, Patricia MacArthur, and she is glad to be here. And we’re going to enjoy reading some of your questions and hopefully trying to answer them. We may not be able to get to all of them, but we’ve tried to go through some of them ourselves together, and we hope that we can answer your questions. If you have questions later on after the luncheon before we leave, Patricia will be over by the door and you can speak to her personally. But, remember, we are on a schedule, and so we can’t stay here all day. But we’ll try to make Patricia available to you as much as we can, OK?
Question
How much support
would you give a daughter who has made unwise choices? She’s left her husband; she has four
children. The parents have given her
money. How much money should they
continue to give her? And the
grandchildren now are asking for the grandparents to help them. What advice would you give this woman?
Answer
Well, I think there’s a lot of consequences for bad choices, for not adhering to wise counsel. But at the same time you’d treat them just as you would any person in need. I wouldn’t give them any extra spending money. I would make sure that there was clothes on the kids, and they had a place to live and food to eat. But I would be very careful about handing them money. I probably would go out and do the shopping myself for their needs. And that would be tough, too, because if it was my daughter, even though she had defied, from what you [said]—I assume, the counsel of her parents and other people, you still have this woman with four children. And before I’d want her to go out and work…I probably wouldn’t take them in, in my home. I think that’s a responsibility she’d have to meet because of the choices she’d made. But somehow we’d probably work with her so that she wouldn’t have to be a full-time working mom, try to be enterprising. And I think it would depend on her lifestyle too, how she demonstrated discipline in her life now, frugality, stewardship of what she had, and I think everyone is a different situation. But I definitely would not leave them in need, you know of the basics. But I certainly wouldn’t shower them with a lot of extras. And just, you know, there’s a price to pay. I mean, God’s forgiving; we’re forgiving. But the ripples go on, and part of this is the response to a bad choice.
Question
“A pastor and his
wife opened their house for an open house in December at their parsonage. They put this time aside in December. They had some people—teenagers—come and help
them, but no one under the age of 50 came.
And they were a little disappointed.
Should we have an open house in December?
Answer
Absolutely! I mean, how many of you would you like to be cast aside once you hit 50? Absolutely. These people are probably the seasoned people in the church that need that fellowship and that would love a little attention and encouragement and, yes, I would. I think the Lord has his purposes in all of that. And I would still open my home and those that want to come would come. And if the only ones that came were the older people—and the truth of the matter, very often, they are the mainstay of the church. They’re the ones that have supported the church. They’re the ones that have gone through the struggles and built the church with history there. And absolutely, and in fact I enjoy the older people many times because they’re past wanting things and wanting excitement. And they just love to talk about life and their love for the Lord. And they’re anticipating most of the time the Lord’s return, and that’s rich, rich fellowship and wisdom.
Question
How would you keep a
prayer group, a prayer time in a Bible study from becoming a gossip session?
Answer
Well, I personally do not feel you need to delineate or express a lot of details when you ask prayer. I think, and for myself in particular—I’m not a private person—maybe I am, but I just don’t have the need to share with everybody something that I’m going through, a struggle or a trial. And usually in a few days or weeks it passes anyway, so if it’s a particular need for somebody’s health; if it’s a need for a job or for Christian growth or for a situation at home for a wayward child or something, I think that’s fine with wisdom and discernment. But I just don’t think it’s wise to sit around and talk about “people’s needs” or what’s going on when the truth of the matter, usually the agenda is not prayer, you know, and I just avoid that, even in our staff wives. We talk about what’s going on in our lives and in our children’s lives and what areas we’re struggling with in terms of time management or some of these things, but we just don’t get into details. Everybody knows each other’s life, and usually you have one close friend that you can share something that’s on your heart, or a family member. But I haven’t been in a huge prayer meeting in years, you know. When I grew up, we used to have “prayer meetings” but we never talked about personal issues. And, I just think it’s wise to avoid that.
Question
Do we have at our
church a mentoring program and what would it be called? What do you use for further Biblical
knowledge? Like what books do you
read? What’s your
favorite authors? Do you have a
favorite verse?”
Answer
We do have mentoring programs. We have a “Titus 2” group of women. We have our “Every Woman’s Grace” which has individual table leaders and their particular group that belongs to that table where they get to know… We have our fellowship groups. We have all kinds of mentoring. And we have a Bible study for widows. I think we have huge options for discipleship or mentoring. It’s there if they seek it.
As far as favorite books, I have to say, I just try to keep up with my husband’s. But a lot of times people will ask me, and I like biographies very much. One particular book that I—in fact, I got the tape series—was R.C. Sproul’s on The Holiness of God. I love Jerry Bridges’ Pursuit of Holiness, Practice of Godliness, Trusting God, Tozer—there’s just a lot of good one’s out there. And if you just attend Grace Community Church, you’re in the Word constantly, and that is a source of growth and development. And I love listening to tapes. Somebody will hand me a good tape, and I’ll listen to it. Or articles—I’m just reading all the time or listening to tapes or in services. And I hear Phil Johnson almost every Sunday in his fellowship group, and I enjoy him very much. He’s an excellent teacher, and very often he’s in the Old Testament. And right now, I’ve decided since my husband has mainly taught in the New Testament, I wanted to go through the Old Testament—again. You hear so much of that when you’re growing up. But, so we’re reading through the Old Testament, and I’m enjoying that thoroughly. We kind of go through it, and if I have a question, I can ask my teacher. And then, I’m listening to the New Testament on tape, which I enjoy very much. And it’s just constant reminders and refreshment of the things we already know. But it’s God’s Word, and it’s like hearing it for the first time again.
And I don’t know, my favorite verse, it changes often. When my children were growing up we chose two verses. When we were traveling, it was “in honor preferring one another,” and then when they were growing up and making choices and decisions, we kind of decided Philippians 4:8 would be a good verse to use as a grid for everything they listened to or read or watched. And that’s “whatsoever things are right, pure and good, of good report, of excellence, think on these things.” And one of our staff wives did that for me in cross stitch, which I love. So, I kind of think that’s one of my favorite verses. But, I was telling somebody earlier, I think my verse, this week, is in Psalms, and it says, “Be still and know that I am God.” And I think sometimes we get so busy, we really do fail to do that. I was talking to my sisters about that. And another thing, the staff wives have started this prayer journal. And I’m beginning to sit down and use that more and more. And how important it is just to set that time aside to sit down and be quiet, and to spend some time in the Word, spend some time in your journal and be reminded of those in need, very often more than our needs, and see how God has been faithful. But I need to do that, the older I get, and the more—I don’t want to use the word chaos, but busyness, that takes place in our lives, I need that time alone. And, so that’s what I’m striving to do.
Question
What passage of
scripture has ministered to you most lately?
And could you share from that passage something that would encourage us?
Answer
I don’t know. There
again, I’ve enjoyed a series on prayer.
I’m always into whatever my husband’s into—in Luke and I John
again. There’s never a time that I spend
time in the Word that I am not encouraged or challenged or I see myself in a
different light. So it’s something new
all the time, it really is. People
always ask me who my husband’s favorite books are, and I’ll have to say the one
book that we get the most letters on that have been life-changing and even
eye-opening is his book on “The
Gospel According to Jesus” where the gospel is
clear. And people say, “I thought I was
a Christian until I read this book.” And
so it’s really been the most profound in terms of changing lives. Another book that I love
and it kind of is with trusting—trusting God was his Anxiety
Attacked. It’s another
good book reminding us that it is a sin to be anxious and to worry.
Another one I love is The Sufficiency of
the Scripture. And my sister-in-law
who died a few years ago just held onto his book, The
Power of Suffering. And it really
ministered to her during her illness and her time of death. And so I think any time we spend time in the
Word or the truth of the Word, whether it’s a book or a tape, or anything, we
are ministered to, and we grow. Or we’re
indifferent, and there’s a problem in our life; there’s sin in our life. So, I think anything we choose to read if we
know it’s Biblical is going to change our way of
thinking and cause growth.
Question
What should I do well
in order to be a good pastor’s wife?
Answer
Well, maybe the first thing is to be his number one fan. Be his encourager and not his critic, and that’s not to say that you have to agree with everything that’s going on or that you don’t have a legitimate concern that needs to be voiced. But I’m telling you ladies, there’s always somebody out there that’s going to be in the wing waiting to give him all the praise and the compliments and the self-worth that they are looking for. And so I choose, I do, I just choose—I am his number one fan.
And then on top of that, I think for me, and I know my husband well, he loves it when I keep my home in order. When I’m home and the meal—Sunday he walked in from church and said, “There’s nothing better than walking in the house and smelling a roast.” And I had all my family over, so I was fixing dinner. But a man likes to smell food; he likes to see the house in order; he likes to know his laundry’s done. He likes to know that the house is in order if you decide to have company over. My husband often will call and say—“Is it OK?” We much prefer having a meal at home rather than going out—I just, for a lot of reasons. But the way I most minister to my husband is to be his encouragement, to be happy, to be visible in the church; having a good relationship with my children, caring for my grandchildren, caring for my home and it’s just a full-time job. It really is, and I know that’s what makes him happiest, when I meet his needs, when I am there to greet him and the house is in order, and it’s a place to come home to and a haven to be refreshed and renewed. And he doesn’t like to come home, and I’m not there. And when I’m gone all day, things aren’t done, so I think the way I most please him and serve him is to be a chaste keeper at home, to love him, love my children and be involved in people’s lives.
Question
Sometimes I feel
jealous about people in the church because my husband and I want to spend time
together, but then we also know he’s in the church. So how do you guard against being jealous?
Answer
Make sure I get a new outfit every—no. [laughter] No, I’m kidding; I don’t shop. I really don’t shop much. I surprised you, didn’t I, Terri? No, you know what, that goes with the territory. You are going to have competition for your husband’s time. That is what you committed to when you said “I do,” when you married a man in the ministry. And you just have to be supportive of that. If you feel it’s out of balance, you need to talk about it. Make sure that your husband is happy with you; meet his needs in the home. Meet his needs in terms of loving him and cherishing him so that he looks forward to coming home to you, and not coming home to a critic. And I have to work on this constantly. But another thing, I don’t know if she means counseling; my husband does not counsel women. He just doesn’t. And our church is equipped with enough qualified women that we have the women counsel the women, the men counsel the men. If a woman needs to see your husband in particular for a given and good reason, then the wife should be there as well. And I can’t say I’m jealous of his time with that. I like my time; I like being home; I like being organized; I like having time, if my kids, my grandkids call and say, “Grandma, would you come to our program?” “Grandma, would you come to open house?” I mean, I have a very busy life, and so it’s not like I’m just sitting at home just waiting for him to come home. But, and I do love it. I mean, he eats most of his meals at home in the evening and stuff. But my husband’s not a real social butterfly, so I don’t struggle with that as much as maybe some other women who have a more gregarious husband. But I think if it’s a real problem, you need to talk about it, and just say, “You know what…” And I know that’s not always the answer either because nothing changes, but if it continues to be a major problem, I think you probably should bring a third party in and talk about it and resolve it. Because that can create some real serious issues in the church when there’s dissention in the pastor’s home.
Question
What is your advice
on ministering and raising a family while also maintaining a role as pastor’s
wife and fulfilling the needs of the ministry in the church? How do you keep that in balance?
Answer
Well, I know it’s probably going to shock a lot of you women, but I don’t believe I was called to be a pastor’s wife. I don’t. I believe I was called to love my husband who was called to be a pastor. And whether I was married to John MacArthur or to another man, my responsibility as a woman, as a mother and a wife doesn’t change. And my first responsibility is my home and my family. And when that’s in order and that’s in place, and that’s not to negate the fact that you need to be involved in a ministry. There’s a lot of things you can be involved in that don’t require you to be out of the home. But I think your first responsibility is, as a woman, is that of being a helpmeet, and taking care of your husband, caring for your children.
I’ve always said this when my kids were very young, I wasn’t about to constantly leave them to minister to somebody else, because 10 years from now they won’t be in my life, those other people, but my children will. And they’ll remember that I constantly was gone for somebody else. And nobody’s more precious than they are to me. God placed them in my life, and they’re my steward. And I think they come first. If I had to go some place, I maybe would leave them with my parents or my husband’s parents, but very seldom did we get a babysitter so that we can go out, or that we could get time away. I didn’t need that; I loved being home with the kids. I mean, a night at home with our family was a treat, you know, and I don’t have any trouble at all saying no, especially when my kids were very young.
When we first were at the church, I was in choir; I was teaching; I was a deaconess; I was involved in everything, and then when Melinda, my fourth child came along, at Christmas time when I was in choir, I realized I was having to be gone so much. And I can’t expect my husband to be home because he’s got his own life and schedule. And so I said, “You know? I’m not going to pay a babysitter any longer to raise my children. I’m just not going to do it.” So it was at that time that I said, “I’m not doing it anymore.” I’m going to stay home with my children, and the time will come when they’re grown, which is now. And now I’m busier than ever. But that’s OK. And my grandchildren—I have 12 grandchildren, which I love. And they’re a big part of my life. I spend a lot of time with them and with my children. And I have them over for dinner a lot. They’re a big part of our life. And there again, we want to be available to help people when there’s a need for ministering, for teaching or time of sickness. My husband has never said no to anybody that calls and wants him to come pray or to visit in the hospital, and I’ll go with him. But, it’s not to the expense or cost of our children or my grandchildren now. I see that as my mission in life now. I really do, my children, my grandchildren, my husband. And sometimes it’s hard keeping the plates spinning, but it works.
Let me say one more thing, Terri. I think as a result of us always putting our children first, it has, to this point in their life—every one of my children love their dad. They love the church; they’re involved at the church. None of them have any bitterness towards us, and they know when they were growing up, no one or no thing was more important that they were, so now when they can make the choice on their own, they’re there. They’re the first ones to be with their dad or to support something that’s going on in the church. I mean, they love the church. And I think, when sometimes, when we neglect our kids, when they’re growing up and put everything in front of them, then when they become adults, they begin to be indifferent and bitter, and feel like saying, “Hey, you know what? No thanks.” And I know God is sovereign in terms of salvation and all of these things. But I still feel that if you make your children feel loved and that they’re a part of your life, as they get older, at this season of life, then you can reap the benefits of that.
Question
This pastor has been
serving for 13 years. And he’s been
moved from a youth pastor position to a senior pastor role, and feels a little
intimidated. The greatest concern the
wife has is how to continue to love the people that they’re ministering to
while at the same time protecting him from them. It says, “Do you have any advice in this
struggle.” So I guess what she means is
maybe because he’s in a higher position as a senior pastor, protecting him from
the people, maybe his time. Have you
felt like you needed to do that, help John protect his time?
Answer
No. It doesn’t do any good anyway. We’ve just kind of grown together. Johnny does what he needs to do. When we were first married, it was a huge struggle for me. I used to offer to buy him a cot to take down to the church and say, “You might as well just live down there.” But it was part of my immaturity, too. It’s a privilege to be married to a man in the ministry; there’s no greater calling than that. And so I began to appreciate it more, and to free him up, and to realize it was not a personal issue. It was just the demands of a church. And there’s no classes in the church or in the Christian community. So I don’t care how old they are, you minister to them, whatever means that is. And I have never felt intimidated by anything, no. I mean, people have needs; people love to be loved. People love to be involved. And you just serve them, and they respond. I’m not intimidated by children or an older person. I’m not saying I’m Miss Perfect. I’m just saying—I’m not quite sure what that means—but just meet their needs. Minister to them; love them. There are a lot of churches that have older pastors or have younger pastors, and the compatibility is not a problem.
Question
OK, this one is
asking a similar question with a little spin off where the wife feels that she
and her husband were always a team. And
then as he got involved in ministry and she had children, she was more at home
and didn’t feel like she was part of the team any longer. How do you keep that in balance?
Answer
I just think that’s a season of life. That’s part of the privilege and responsibility of having children. This is just a season you’re going through. And you need to free your husband up to do what he has to do, and you need to see this time in your life as being a keeper at home, maintaining your home, caring for his children, so that does free him up. If a man is in a situation where his woman is not doing her job at home, caring for the home, caring for the children, that very often will disqualify him. One of the responsibilities of an elder is that he rules well at home. And a lot of that reflects on the wife. I’m just different I guess, but I’m not one of these women who say, “When you’re dad gets home, you’re really going to be spanked hard.” I get the thing out, and I spank them myself. So when he’s home, they’re in order. You just don’t dump that on them. You’ve got to be a disciplinarian; you’ve got to love them. And see, this is your season in life. You’re a homemaker; you’re a keeper at home. And embrace it, rather than resist it, and everybody’ll be happy. And it’s very fulfilling. This is God-ordained. This is not a task—it may be a task—but it’s enjoyable, and it’s rewarding. It’s fulfilling. And I wouldn’t trade it for anything. If I had my choice, I’d probably have more kids. We had four, so now I’m getting the grandkids.
Question
Recently, all my
children have gone to school, and my time has been freed up during the day for
other ministry. Would you be able to
help me with some gracious answers to unbelievers who ask me why I don’t work
with my free time?
Answer
Well, because there’s a lot of things in the church you can do. If you’re freed up, then go volunteer at the church. Go get involved in the lives of people and minister. We have to take a very strong stand on that at our church. If you’re freed up now, then get involved in ministry. There’s all kinds of things you can do. And when you have a second income, you get into all kinds of hassles, you know. Unless there’s a real, real strong particular need, I think a woman, when she’s freed up, needs to get involved in the church, start a ministry—there’s all kinds of things you can do. Go to the jail ministry; it’s not like you’re looking for things to do. I can’t imagine that. I just can’t, but I would very strongly discourage a woman from working when the church is always crying out for help from people, you know that have time that can do this or can do that. And it just elevates your wants when you have a second income. It elevates your freedom as a woman; I think it does. It requires more wardrobe; it requires different taxes; it requires a lot of things. And it also kind of separates you from being one with your husband in his goal, and that of being a minister in the church. You’re going this way, and you’re running off to work while he’s doing this. And, I don’t think it’s healthy. Plus, even that, you’re still supposed to be a keeper at home and prepare meals for your husband and do the laundry. And then start caring for your grandchildren, and start teaching the younger women how to do it—that’s Biblical.
Question
How do you handle or
respond to any criticism that comes to your husband?
Answer
I don’t like it. I don’t get mad. My husband gets criticized; that goes with the territory. I don’t like it. And I know if they really knew him and knew his heart, they wouldn’t feel that way. And I just choose to pray for him and very often somebody that will criticize, and that’s what somebody says—I feel criticism comes from not knowing that person—usually. It’s hearsay; it’s something somebody’s told them or something they perceived, and that’s why as often as possible—of course, in large groups I can’t—I choose to have women into my home, so that when they get to know me, and see my home which is just like everybody else’s, they will sooner pray for us than criticize us, because they feel they know you. Some people are going to be critical no matter what you do. And so, you just have to choose to accept that, and God uses that to humble us; he uses it to refine us.
My husband never is defensive about any criticism that comes toward him. I say, “John, why don’t you tell them the truth; why don’t you straighten that out?” And he says, “You know, that’s not my deal. God is my defender.” And he says, “You know, I can straighten them out on this, and there’ll be something else that they’re upset about.” So, I’m used to it; I really am. I don’t like it. And I just feel if you knew my husband, but somebody once told us—a close friend, “The higher you go on the ladder, the more criticism and kicks you’re going to get.” And that’s just with the territory. Look at our President. I mean, look at the response he’s getting for his leadership today. And, you know, it’s just human nature. And I feel bad, and I am sorry, you know, that they feel this way. And sometimes it’s justified. And the Lord uses it, like I say, to humble us, and to get us to maybe look inside ourselves and say, “Hey, maybe that’s a legitimate criticism.” You know, I mean, you can’t always be right. And it’s not that hard for me, and I know people that have said things about my husband, but I have no trouble at all walking up and saying, “Hi.” It really doesn’t bother me. It’s only when they talk about my grandkids, and they have reason to sometimes.
Question
“How would you help
elderly people to have good devotions, especially now that your dad’s with
you?” The question goes on to say, “with
respect to their eyesight or not hearing well, or they fall asleep while
they’re reading, how would you give a woman instruction to help someone like
that?”
Answer
Oh, I think God is gracious. And I think at that time in life they’re seasoned. They’ve paid their dues. And, I will sit down and read with my dad, you know from the Psalms, or just when we’re reading, and we talk about it. And we pray together. My dad still prays. If he’s at the table, and we’re all there, we always ask my dad to pray—not if my husband’s there. If it’s my husband and father, my husband will pray. But if it’s just my sisters and I, we’ll say, “Daddy, do you want to ask the blessing or do you want to do this?” But he’s not one to sit down and have his devotions. But everything you talk about, he knows; it’s been through his little computer. And he is in agreement with everything. He still has his opinion about things. And everything we say, everything we do is through the grid of God’s perception. It just is. And we talk about how beautiful it is…we’re just in agreement because he’s been a Christian as long as I’ve known him. But I think the way you can maybe encourage devotion with him is just some beautiful music. Turn on some pretty music. My dad eyesight’s not gone, but he’s not the one that would just sit down and pore over a devotion. But I always have Christian music on, and we always read in the morning, and we pray together. And I think God understands that. There again, a season of life where—my dad’s 93 ½. His dad lived to be 105.
I was telling some of the gals yesterday, he’s still very (he might be out there, so I have to be careful)—he’s, I wouldn’t say stubborn, but he likes to do things his own way. And I was getting him up the other day. I went in and said, “Daddy, it’s time to get up.” And so he didn’t come out for a while. I went in, and he’s standing up, trying to put his feet in his pants, and I said, “Oh, Daddy, you need to sit down when you put your pants on because,” I said, “that’s how you’re going to lose your balance and fall and you could break a hip.” “Trisha, I’ll do that when I get old.” So I said, “OK, Daddy.” I said, well, I sit down when I put my pants on or my hosiery. But he still stands up, you know, and wants to balance himself and get his pants on, but that’s just him.
Today I told him, in fact, I brought him with me. I called my sister and asked her to come. And I said, “Daddy, we’re going to get a wheelchair”—he’s had a knee replacement—so I said, “Daddy”—My mom passed away two years ago this May, so he’s lonely. But I said, “Daddy, now we’re going to get a wheelchair for you today.” He said, “No, I don’t want a wheelchair.” I said, “Yeah, you do, Daddy.” I said, “It’s a two-hour tour,” and I said, “we want you to be able to enjoy it.” And I said, “It’s free, so we’re going to get a wheelchair.” So we got a wheelchair. But he’s such a dear man. I never worry about him being depressed or discouraged about his walk with the Lord. I mean, he’s anxious to go to heaven to be with my mom, but unless it’s a woman, it’s somebody who’s by themselves, I think it’s good to read Scripture. I think it is good to read Proverbs or Psalms or something that will lift their spirits, and just to know that God is there to encourage them and to strengthen them and give them hope.
Question
When or if you have
differences with John raising the children, running the household, whatever,
were you able to get advice from someone else in the church or outside of the
church?
Answer
I have to say, Johnny is the easiest man you’ll ever want to live with. He just is; there’s never conflict because he won’t conflict. I do; I have very strong opinions about things. But he, Johnny just doesn’t get upset about anything. He’s exactly what you see. He’s easygoing; he’s exactly like his mother. He’s a very even temperament. He never gets mad. I can honestly say, he has never been mad at me. I’ve been upset with him; no, I have. And that’s human; two people live together, you get upset with each other. And I’ve never—and I wouldn’t seek help outside our home. I’d say, “Johnny, you know what? This is going to have to change. This is just the way it is.” I would; I’m very honest. I’d just say. He says, “Well, I don’t understand.” I said, “Well, this is the way it is.” This is the way I’m going to explain it to him. But no, Johnny, just doesn’t have a hard time with it. But I know there are men out there that are maybe inconsiderate or maybe insensitive. And they need to be told. And if it really creates an issue in the home where he is not qualified to be up teaching the Word on Sunday, you need to go seek a godly person for help. And sometimes it’s things that can be resolved; sometimes it’s things that God needs to work on. If that’s the case, then he is not in a position to be teaching and ministering to other people. If his relationship with his wife is not in order, then he should not be up front teaching. But you need to make sure, and search your own heart to make sure that your motives are pure, and that you’re not being selfish, and that the issue is not you. But there are times when you do need to seek extra help, but I’d be very, very careful who you seek out. You don’t need to be, you know, airing your laundry and creating issues in the church unless it really is a serious and a valid one. But then, yeah, you have the right to go to a godly person that you know you can trust and confide in.
Question
What’s your opinion
about keeping a tidy home when women come to a woman and they’re criticizing
because her house either isn’t tidy enough; it isn’t clean enough. How would you instruct that woman to be
accountable to other women in her church?
Answer
Well, how do you define tidy; how do you define clean, you know? I like a clean house. I like things to be in order. And I like to know—somebody says, “Do you have measuring tape?” I know where to get it, you know what I mean? I like my home to be in order. If it’s a home that is unacceptable or disgraceful for unexpected company, I think there needs to be a change. And that should come from a close friend that’s willing to come alongside and just get in with her and straighten it up. If it’s a woman that’s opening her home for a Bible study or something, then somebody needs to go to her and say, “Hey, you know what? This is not the result of a chaste keeper at home.” A woman who stays home, unless she’s lazy, her house is in order. And that’s the trouble with these women that don’t stay home. They don’t have a home that’s in order. They’re not prepared to serve people; they’re not prepared to have company; they’re not prepared to have the family in order. When there’s chaos in the kitchen and in the house, it just creates—I’m working with Marcy on this, because she’s got these five kids. And when they come to my house, and I’m not sergeant, but I say, “Olivia pick that up. You don’t throw that on the ground; pick it up.” You know, you just have to constantly be training and teaching. And if there’s a woman that has allowed herself to be undisciplined in that area, somebody needs to go to her and be willing to come alongside and work with her on it rather than be embarrassed every week at Bible study.
Question
What about the
balance between being out of the home, say exercising, and then the balance of
being in the church, and maybe not being totally committed to a ministry, but
wanting to be part of a ministry, but being maybe more concerned with your
looks and how you’re being perceived by people.
Answer
You really want me to tell you how I feel about that? I have a real strong feelings and convictions about the gym. And you can take it wherever you want; I may offend you, but I still feel—I think the gym promotes vanity, very often. I’m not talking about just being fit, but I’m talking about these women that are always talking about their abs or their—it’s disgusting. I’m sorry; it’s disgusting. Half the women are in the gym more than they are at home, and I think it’s wrong. It’s just reeks of pride and vanity. There’s nothing wrong with being healthy; there’s nothing wrong with being fit. But when it takes the place of ministering to women, when it takes the place of a Bible study, when it takes the place of keeping your home in order, when it takes the place of exercising rather than fixing a decent meal for the family, it’s wrong. My mother lived to be 91. She never once went to the gym, but believe me, she wasn’t out of condition. And I wrecked my knee a few months ago, so I don’t walk. But I have a treadmill at home, and I walk every day. That’s fine; I make use of my time on the treadmill when I was doing it; I intend to do it again. But there’s nothing wrong with exercise. Well, I can’t right now, but anyway. There’s nothing wrong with exercise, but when it becomes a dominant in your life, when it becomes obsessive, you go to somebody and say, “I’ve got to go out; I’ve got to go to the gym; I’ve got to go here…” I think it’s disgusting. I told my kids, and everybody I talk to, “If you work as long and hard on your heart, the inward man, as you do on the outward man, that’s one thing. But you better start making sure that you’re working on the inward man as much as you’re working on the outside man, or it’s out of balance. And it’s wrong.” I mean, God looks on the heart; man looks on the outward appearance. And it says in God’s Word, “exercise profits little.” And I don’t want to sound like I’m down on exercise, because I believe in it. I think it’s good to walk. Turn that TV off, and go for a walk. Go outside and play with the kids; do something. But when this becomes and obsession and it’s the topic of conversation constantly, it’s obnoxious; and it’s wrong. It’s prideful, and it’s vanity. And you can decide where that fine line is. And I mean, I know, I hope I don’t come across wrong because like I say, I understand it. But this world has become—that’s all you see on TV, every channel is these half-dressed women exercising or getting buff or some dumb thing that has nothing to do with the spiritual life. Anyway, do you understand how I feel?
Question
“You don’t need to
give names, but what women have had the greatest spiritual impact on your
life? And what was it that impacted
you?”
Answer
I honestly say, I’ll have to say my mom, just in a quiet way my mom was very, very—I’d say she was legalistic. My mom was prudish. My mom was demanding in terms of, she wouldn’t always give me a scripture, but she’d say, “It’s just not right. There’s right and there’s wrong. And you’re going to do this because it’s right.” I never got an explanation from my mother when she said no to me. I’d do what she said. I observed my mom’s life, and she’s the one who best prepared me for ministry, too. My mom ministered to the widows. She would always pick up two or three ladies for Bible study. My mom always had groups into the home. My mom always had company. I just observed her life. She taught the Bible study in the church. My mom practiced godliness in our home in terms of the literature in our home. We didn’t have a TV much then, but we were never allowed to have anything that was questionable. She taught me modesty. She taught me how to work hard. She taught me how when I was first married, I would be complaining about my hard life, and she’d say, “Trisha, you knew what you were getting into when you married John.” I said, “No, I didn’t.” But I would do it again. She wouldn’t tolerate or hear of my complaining.
I was talking to my sisters. I’m one of five. There’s four girls and one boy. And we all know how to work. All these people say, “I’m so tired; I’m so tired.” And my one sister says, “You know what Trisha? Attitude determines energy.” And that is so true. I never saw my mother lay down; I never saw her take a nap. I never saw her say, “I need a vacation.” My mom sewed everything in our home; she cooked everything; she canned; she china painted; she did everything. And she loved the Lord. And she made the church and God the focus of our life, all of us. All five of us kids love and fear the Lord today, and it’s because Mama always made sure our life was the church. My dad had a job to provide food and clothes and shelter. But I said, if the church doors were open, we were there. Or if it was a work day, and we used to have revivals then. Or, we all taught; we all helped in Sunday School. My dad was the Sunday School superintendent. Our whole life was serving the Lord, and it wasn’t a huge effort. My dad would read the Bible to us at breakfast. In the evenings we’d have sword drills, you know, for games. That was our idea of a game. You know, “Don’t open your Bibles…” Or we’d have, I don’t know, I guess my mom and dad were the most influential and lasting influence in my life.
Question
“Could you tell us
how involved you were in the beginning of your ministry at Grace in
establishing or leading any women’s ministry?”
Answer
It was established. We have some very qualified women in our church that were involved and still are in our women’s ministries. Our church—well, it was very, it was quite small. I think it was 450 or so when we first came—but Mrs. Beechem (sp?), who was the former pastor’s widow was still in the church; in fact we had two widows still in our church. And they always carried the load. When I came I had three small children under three. And my kids were just always very young, and I just chose never to set them aside to do those things. I taught Sunday School; I was a deaconess; I sang in choir; I was there when there was a need; I went on visitation; I did all that. But I didn’t head up anything. That wasn’t my thing, and there were plenty of qualified women in the church to do that. And I realize that there are a lot of churches that don’t have that. And I still feel if you don’t feel you have the gift of teaching, which is not my choice. But I do know there’s a lot of good material out there. There’s a lot of workbooks; there’s a lot of leader’s guides. You can always sit down and go through a Bible study. I mean, there’s just too much material out there to not have some form of ministry for women.
Added to Bible Bulletin Board's "Shepherds’ Conference Collection" by:
Tony Capoccia
Bible Bulletin Board
Box 119
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and www.gospelgems.com
Email: tony@biblebb.com
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