The following "Question" was asked by a member of the congregation at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, and "Answered" by their pastor, John MacArthur Jr. It was transcribed by Brenda Rivera of Orlando, Florida from the tape, GC 1301-S, titled "Bible Questions and Answers Part 21."  A copy of the tape can be obtained by writing, Word of Grace, P.O. Box 4000, Panorama City, CA 91412 or by dialing toll free 1-800-55-GRACE. ©1982. All Rights Reserved.

Question

My parents are Catholics and they’re always talking about the fact that they sort of balance salvation on a justice scale and if you have more good works than bad works then you will go to Heaven and if they’re sort of like even, then you go to purgatory for a while. I don’t have the verses in scripture but I was wondering if you had scripture, I know they use certain scripture for that?

Well you see the burden of proof is on them. You see there is no scripture about purgatory, there’s none at all. They teach that if you have more good works than bad works you could get to Heaven but very few people go directly to Heaven. I mean that’s very, very unusual in the Catholic system, most people go to purgatory and there are levels of purgatory. You get out of purgatory by having people who are here on earth lighting candles, praying prayers, or by the treasury of merit, which is somebody who is really super good and has got more than he needs, so some of his extras can be put to your account. 

Now the point with this dealing with purgatory is when anybody comes to me in the Catholic faith and says, “Well we believe in purgatory,” the only question you want to ask them is, “Look here’s my Bible, would you show me where that is?” And then you will open up the "big can of worms" because the "big can of worms" is it is not in the Bible. But the big issue with them is it doesn’t matter if it’s in the Bible, because tradition is equivalent to Scripture. 

You see they believe the council of Trent, or anything the pope says ex cathedra, or anything determined by any other council, is as binding as holy writ. If the pope is the vicar of Christ and if Christ mediates his truth through the councils then tradition is the equivalent of Scripture. So in effect they are in the same, and that’s why I use them as a parallel to the Jews, they are in the very same bag with the Jews. 

In the book I wrote on the Charismatics, I find too that the basic issue in the Charismatic movement is very similar to that. They also have developed a mass of tradition in addition to the Bible. I’ve had them say to me, for example, if you’re not "Slain in the Spirit" at least once every few days you’ll never know the power of God in your life. My answer to that is, "Where does it say that you are to be Slain in the Spirit? Where? It isn’t in the Bible, but it’s grown up as a tradition and if you keep having revelations and so forth and so on, you’re going to have that. 

So the only way you can deal with that is to try to show a Catholic person that the Bible is the beginning and the end of God’s revelation. 

Questioner

Yeah, it's sort of sad because my father and mother are both Catholics and he goes to church everyday and as far as the Bible’s concerned, the Bible has no part at all in their beliefs. 

Answer continued

You see it’s what I’m going to talk about this Sunday morning, it’s ceremonial religion, it’s just what I was saying last Sunday morning you remember? Circumcision get you in...that’s a ceremony, that’s a religious routine. Or in the morning we were talking about washing your hands a certain way; rinsing your hands a certain way, that’s the same kind of deal: You go to church, you light a candle, you kneel down, you stand up, you say your beads, you do your deal--that’s tragic. 

Questioner

One thing too, when did the Catholic Church officially begin? What date historically? 

Answer continued

You’d probably have to go back to about 325 with Constantine. Constantine really postulated the holy Roman Empire when he came to rule the Roman Empire and made Christianity the religion of the state, and set out to persecute anybody who was not a Christian. And so he sort of made Christianity into a political issue and from 325 on, the holy Roman kind of Empire, I mean in other words, a sort of quasi-Christianity got linked in with the Roman Empire or with at least Constantine's Empire at that point, and it just kept developing, and developing, and developing, through the dark ages and finally it was shattered. And all the while, while it existed there were dissident groups, right? There were groups who had the truth; there was a true remnant outside the system, but it finally blew sky high under Martin Luther, but basically you go back to 325, I think, to find the real roots of the system. You could even find some of it earlier in what is known as the Nicene and the Post-Nicene fathers, well no, that would be about the same time, so that's about the right time.

Added to Bible Bulletin Board's "MacArthur’s Questions and Answers" by:

Tony Capoccia
Bible Bulletin Board
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