The following "Question" was asked by a member of the congregation at Grace Community Church in Panorama City, California, and "Answered" by their pastor, John MacArthur Jr. It was transcribed from the tape, GC 70-1, titled "Bible Questions and Answers."  A copy of the tape can be obtained by writing, Word of Grace, P.O. Box 4000, Panorama City, CA 91412 or by dialing toll free 1-800-55-GRACE.

Question

My question concerns the end times. If I understand you clearly, last Sunday you said that, the Church will not be here before the events of Matthew 24 take place. In Matthew 24, Jesus uses the second person pronoun "you" referring to all the believers who will be around at that particular time, but in one way or another, the "you" in the future has an attachment to the "you" of that particular period--namely the Apostles. Christ was answering their question, therefore, He says "you" and He exhorts them, and corrects them, and comforts them. To me, I see that Christ saw the existing body of believers, which later were pioneers of the Church, as of the same body of those who would be around in the Tribulation time. Secondly, in Matthew 24:9, Christ says, "You will be hated by all nations on account of My name," which purports that this will be Christ's disciples, and in verse 22 and 24, He calls them "elect," and in John, chapter 11, verse 52, Caiaphas was prophesying and he didn't know it, and the Bible says that he did not say that on his own initiative, "But being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together into one the children of God that were scattered abroad." And in chapter 10 of the same book, He says in verse 16, "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold: I must bring then also, and they shall hear my voice; and they shall become one flock." If the Church won't go through the Tribulation, and Matthew 24 has some believers who will be in the Tribulation, how do we separate the Church and these people since the Bible has them as one nation?

Answer

I think we only separate them by virtue of the Rapture, that's all. The Rapture is not dealt with in verse 24, so it is very difficult to stick it in there. I only did that because people would wonder where does this happen and who is He talking about. The Rapture is something you have to deal with; you have to put it someplace--definitely you have to put it someplace. If you put it at the end of the Tribulation you got all kinds of problems, because you got two things happening at once: you got the righteous being taken out and you have the unrighteous being taken out at the same time--it doesn't make sense. There is a lot of problems with that, so I think that there is reason to put the Rapture at beginning.

Having said that, I think that the Lord will take away His Church as a restraining influence. Now, I think He then redeems people on the earth. They are, for all intents and purposes, a part of the one flock. They are part of the one group. They come to Christ through faith just like anybody else does, there is no distinction there. They are redeemed from out of all the tribes and tongues and peoples and nations, and they are redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb. The whole process of salvation is exactly the same as it has always been. The only distinction I see is the removal of the Church during the period of time of judgment on the earth. Out of that judgment there is a group of people redeemed who will be brought together with the other people who are redeemed, just as we have been brought together in the future yet with those Old Testament saints. The Old Testament saints, you realize now that there spirits are with the Lord, their bodies have not yet been resurrected. According to Daniel 12, they have yet to wait the day of resurrection, when final judgment comes, and final glory for their bodies--some of them. There is going to be tribulation saints who have a resurrection at the end of the times.

So, I understand what you are saying, and what you are saying is, if the church is taken out, then what is this group? I just see them as an extension of God's redeemed people, that's all. You have Old Testament people, you have people in this period of time, and you will have people in that period of time. Some of them are definitely Jews; some of them are Gentiles from all over the world, they are a part of the one redeemed people. It is the same as Hebrews tells us in Hebrews, chapter 12, where it says, "That we are also identified with the innumerable host, the spirits of just men made perfect."

We are all one with that innumerable company in heaven already. So, I don't see a problem with that, all I see is that the Rapture uniquely occurs to remove the redeemed people for the judgment on the earth, and out of that judgment other redeemed people are gathered together, just as they were in the Old Testament to be collected all together in one great flock for eternity.